I'm looking into trying DKs in PvP as I have an alt that's just waiting to be leveled up in the new expansion content.
My question is, how good is each spec in PvP and what kind of "feel" do you get from each spec? I'm looking for a competitive set up both in RBGs and arena.
And how viable is DWing versus 2H weapons in PvP nowadays?
Thank you for your time!
dual wield only works well as frost currently
frost is the most burst, unholy is the highest sustained damage, and blood is just a meat shield
Thursday, April 19, 2012
Rune Bug (Rime?)
So this may have been addressed already by someone, but I wasn't able to find a specific post about it.
Since speccing into rime yesterday as opposed to endless winter / pillar of frost I've noticed that sometimes when both frost runes are down one of them will stay fully blacked out and wait for the other to come off CD before even starting to refresh. This means that if you used them at or about the same time that it takes 18.5 seconds before they are both refreshed on there own.
After spending a little more time with the spec it seems to be caused by rime. It grants you a howling blast for "Free" but the next time both your frost runes are on CD if they arent on CD already they will only refresh one at a time.
It's a huge DPS/utility loss and I was wondering if anyone else was experiencing this bug?
I thought this was rime but it's not. since speccing out of it its just happening on everything (Ob / BS). sigh
This isnt a bug and has nothing to do with Rime or any other spec. The Rune mechanics were changed in 4.0 and all only refresh one at at time now. Deplete both runes of one kind together and the second wont start filling until the first is filled, but using rune strike or frost strike will completly charge an unfilled rune sometimes.
ermk. Thanks for the reply.
yeah the fact that runes refresh one at a time for each type and runic empowerment randomly refreshing a down rune to make your strikes hit harder totally screwed us over. thats why you dont see death knights at the top of any dps charts... oh wait..
Since speccing into rime yesterday as opposed to endless winter / pillar of frost I've noticed that sometimes when both frost runes are down one of them will stay fully blacked out and wait for the other to come off CD before even starting to refresh. This means that if you used them at or about the same time that it takes 18.5 seconds before they are both refreshed on there own.
After spending a little more time with the spec it seems to be caused by rime. It grants you a howling blast for "Free" but the next time both your frost runes are on CD if they arent on CD already they will only refresh one at a time.
It's a huge DPS/utility loss and I was wondering if anyone else was experiencing this bug?
I thought this was rime but it's not. since speccing out of it its just happening on everything (Ob / BS). sigh
This isnt a bug and has nothing to do with Rime or any other spec. The Rune mechanics were changed in 4.0 and all only refresh one at at time now. Deplete both runes of one kind together and the second wont start filling until the first is filled, but using rune strike or frost strike will completly charge an unfilled rune sometimes.
ermk. Thanks for the reply.
yeah the fact that runes refresh one at a time for each type and runic empowerment randomly refreshing a down rune to make your strikes hit harder totally screwed us over. thats why you dont see death knights at the top of any dps charts... oh wait..
macro help
anyone know how to make a macro that toggles gnaw on and off? been trying to figure out how to get this instead of /cast use gnaw because that crap is taking like 7 seconds to actually cast
Wednesday, April 18, 2012
Blood Worms... serious, solo, or gimmick?
After reading a recent post, I've began questioning this ability.
Does it save your bum more often than it overheals?
My recount doesnt show blood worms so I dont even know if it works.
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/admqrc243vu52rcx/details/72/
This is from the only Guild on Illidan that's posting logs currently. I had to click "Show Pets" to see the little guys.
High overheals, but it's still a large amount of healing for 2 talent points that really require nothing on your end.
Don't know why people dosen't like this Talent, in fact its realy usefull. I get like 9k heals just for hitting, and i don't see any other talent that can be as usefull as Blood worms after u get Lichborne.
13k when it crits for me like the guy above said.
Going to test it all this evening, it seems worth a shot at the least.
Thanks folks.
reading the talent i thought it only heals your group and not you, so it does heal you as well?
iirc from trying pre cata, it heals everyone within range of the burst.
AKA mostly heals you, pets, and melee dps.
don't even know if it heals your group, but it heals you, and heals pretty fine.
It's a smart heal. It targets lowest HP allies first.
Bloodworms heal everyone in a set radius around them including yourself. I'm also getting pops from them upwards of 20-25k. Mine are running around with 35k health though. They are also set to not explode when you are at full life to limit their over heals.
Free heals is always good.
popping 25k? lol, its a impressive amount, how did u manage to do that?
ohh... 342 ilvl XDD
They heal for a set % of their max life which seems to stack with yours. I'm running like 160k in heroics with a fort buff. I had a few gorge to about 14 stacks in WotLK, but they didn't burst =(
They seem to be very situational, but as mentioned, free heals are never bad. I watch the healing meters pretty closely and they are never more than ~2% of my heals (which isn't good, imo), but having a 15k heal for everyone in the group randomly can be a butt saver. Besides, where else do we put those points?
How do blood worms work exactly? are they timed then just explode? or do they have to do a certain amount of dmg? Im unclear as to what makes them explode. I tend to see my worms last till after a fight then just go away without healing.
I'm not exactly sure what makes them explode. I know they gain a buff that increases their healing done by 10% of their life per stack, and that they won't pop if you are at full life. Other than that, their mechanics are a mystery to me.
I do have one question. Since my recount isn't reading any of their heals (haven't updated it in months), and the tooltip doesn't specify. Does it do the full heal amount to everybody, or does it take the amount and evenly divide it amongst all targets in range? Based on the person saying he's gotten 25k heals, I'd assume the former, but I do want to be sure. Tx!
Never tried it but based on the tooltip it seems pretty worthless. A 10% chance to spawn them on regular hit with my super slow weapon... right. And then they need the fight to last long enough for them to pop and be useful rather than wasted. Perhaps more useful in raids but totally worthless in LFG imo.
Does it save your bum more often than it overheals?
My recount doesnt show blood worms so I dont even know if it works.
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/admqrc243vu52rcx/details/72/
This is from the only Guild on Illidan that's posting logs currently. I had to click "Show Pets" to see the little guys.
High overheals, but it's still a large amount of healing for 2 talent points that really require nothing on your end.
Don't know why people dosen't like this Talent, in fact its realy usefull. I get like 9k heals just for hitting, and i don't see any other talent that can be as usefull as Blood worms after u get Lichborne.
13k when it crits for me like the guy above said.
Going to test it all this evening, it seems worth a shot at the least.
Thanks folks.
reading the talent i thought it only heals your group and not you, so it does heal you as well?
iirc from trying pre cata, it heals everyone within range of the burst.
AKA mostly heals you, pets, and melee dps.
don't even know if it heals your group, but it heals you, and heals pretty fine.
It's a smart heal. It targets lowest HP allies first.
Bloodworms heal everyone in a set radius around them including yourself. I'm also getting pops from them upwards of 20-25k. Mine are running around with 35k health though. They are also set to not explode when you are at full life to limit their over heals.
Free heals is always good.
popping 25k? lol, its a impressive amount, how did u manage to do that?
ohh... 342 ilvl XDD
They heal for a set % of their max life which seems to stack with yours. I'm running like 160k in heroics with a fort buff. I had a few gorge to about 14 stacks in WotLK, but they didn't burst =(
They seem to be very situational, but as mentioned, free heals are never bad. I watch the healing meters pretty closely and they are never more than ~2% of my heals (which isn't good, imo), but having a 15k heal for everyone in the group randomly can be a butt saver. Besides, where else do we put those points?
How do blood worms work exactly? are they timed then just explode? or do they have to do a certain amount of dmg? Im unclear as to what makes them explode. I tend to see my worms last till after a fight then just go away without healing.
I'm not exactly sure what makes them explode. I know they gain a buff that increases their healing done by 10% of their life per stack, and that they won't pop if you are at full life. Other than that, their mechanics are a mystery to me.
I do have one question. Since my recount isn't reading any of their heals (haven't updated it in months), and the tooltip doesn't specify. Does it do the full heal amount to everybody, or does it take the amount and evenly divide it amongst all targets in range? Based on the person saying he's gotten 25k heals, I'd assume the former, but I do want to be sure. Tx!
Never tried it but based on the tooltip it seems pretty worthless. A 10% chance to spawn them on regular hit with my super slow weapon... right. And then they need the fight to last long enough for them to pop and be useful rather than wasted. Perhaps more useful in raids but totally worthless in LFG imo.
Another 2h dw question
So, title generally says most of what this topic will be asking...
Which is better for pvp? Right now i am using a 2h and i find the burst and high damage is really beneficial. I have not tested out DW though.
much of a much honestly, ive tried both. prob 2h is better.
Dual wield will ALWAYS have a chance to miss.. even if you have the 8% hit it'll still have about 15-16% chance to hit. In PvP every hit counts.
Ironically,for frost, dual wielding is actually more bursty than 2h. This is because your specials do considerably more damage. 2H does less damage with each attack, but attacks more frequently because of increased RP gen.
Basically,
Threat of Thausarrian + frost presence = increased burst. specials do more damage but less frequent.
Might of Frozen Wastes + unholy presence = sustained damage. specials do less damage but are more frequent.
White attacks don't really factor into it that much; DW and 2h do about the same overall white damage. Of course you miss more while DW but this is just to make up for having more damage. White attacks are not large enough to account for significant burst for either DW or 2h.
well with regards to ah 2h, i would be in unholy presence the whole time, or frost? i've been using frost and rolling kids..
I do better as dual wield, and I don't even have a str weapon for my offhand. I'm doin about 14k obliterate crits with 2h and 21k crits dual wielded.
this is only in regards to white hits... you're specials won't miss if you are at 8%...
DW frost will produce better burst (mainly because of ToT) and runs in Frost pres, enhancing the burst further. you'll also have a better shot at proccing KM
2H isn't bad, you run in UH pres for short globals and dumping your RP. Keep in mind that with consistently moving targets, if you can't stick on them you'll have a harder time trying to build RP through Might of the Frozen Wastes (though this will be assisted a bit by UH pres at.speed boost and your amount of haste). however if you have a 2H that is much better tahn current combined 1H's, go with it for now.
TL:DR
DW can, done right, outperform 2H but it reallly boils down to
DW = burst, slower play
2H = sustained Damage quicker play
Which is better for pvp? Right now i am using a 2h and i find the burst and high damage is really beneficial. I have not tested out DW though.
much of a much honestly, ive tried both. prob 2h is better.
Dual wield will ALWAYS have a chance to miss.. even if you have the 8% hit it'll still have about 15-16% chance to hit. In PvP every hit counts.
Ironically,for frost, dual wielding is actually more bursty than 2h. This is because your specials do considerably more damage. 2H does less damage with each attack, but attacks more frequently because of increased RP gen.
Basically,
Threat of Thausarrian + frost presence = increased burst. specials do more damage but less frequent.
Might of Frozen Wastes + unholy presence = sustained damage. specials do less damage but are more frequent.
White attacks don't really factor into it that much; DW and 2h do about the same overall white damage. Of course you miss more while DW but this is just to make up for having more damage. White attacks are not large enough to account for significant burst for either DW or 2h.
well with regards to ah 2h, i would be in unholy presence the whole time, or frost? i've been using frost and rolling kids..
I do better as dual wield, and I don't even have a str weapon for my offhand. I'm doin about 14k obliterate crits with 2h and 21k crits dual wielded.
Dual wield will ALWAYS have a chance to miss.. even if you have the 8% hit it'll still have about 15-16% chance to hit. In PvP every hit counts.
this is only in regards to white hits... you're specials won't miss if you are at 8%...
DW frost will produce better burst (mainly because of ToT) and runs in Frost pres, enhancing the burst further. you'll also have a better shot at proccing KM
2H isn't bad, you run in UH pres for short globals and dumping your RP. Keep in mind that with consistently moving targets, if you can't stick on them you'll have a harder time trying to build RP through Might of the Frozen Wastes (though this will be assisted a bit by UH pres at.speed boost and your amount of haste). however if you have a 2H that is much better tahn current combined 1H's, go with it for now.
TL:DR
DW can, done right, outperform 2H but it reallly boils down to
DW = burst, slower play
2H = sustained Damage quicker play
Deathnknights need more stickies
The lack of stickies on the Deathknight forums is sad. we have a single tanking sticky. I know consider is primarily on elitist jerks, but we should have more stuff at home here!
I'm surprised there isn't a Dark Sim sticky thread yet. If I don't see one by Christmas I might work on one for the new year.
Any other desired stickys?
Yeah you might wanna throw out something about threat and cc ect. Might be helpfull to fresh DK's looking for info
Hmm, motion seems seconded so I vote yay. There used to be a faq regarding starting quests and varying specs for leveling. That could be updated for Cataclysm and stickied. Old players don't get tired of answering the same questions over and over, new players get the information needed without snark. Win-win.
I'm a new DK who only just started liking the class, so any help sans snarkyness would be super. I've only just started reading forums and love how helpful and patient everyone has been. Kudos! And I also vote yes
What sort of stickies are there a need/demand for?
link to ej and your blog I guess
I'm surprised there isn't a Dark Sim sticky thread yet. If I don't see one by Christmas I might work on one for the new year.
Any other desired stickys?
Yeah you might wanna throw out something about threat and cc ect. Might be helpfull to fresh DK's looking for info
Hmm, motion seems seconded so I vote yay. There used to be a faq regarding starting quests and varying specs for leveling. That could be updated for Cataclysm and stickied. Old players don't get tired of answering the same questions over and over, new players get the information needed without snark. Win-win.
I'm a new DK who only just started liking the class, so any help sans snarkyness would be super. I've only just started reading forums and love how helpful and patient everyone has been. Kudos! And I also vote yes
What sort of stickies are there a need/demand for?
link to ej and your blog I guess
Are we becoming FOTM tanks?
I tanked on both the DK and my warrior in wrath. Granted I didn't raid much with the DK due to gear, but I did use him to do the daily heroic or pug stuff. After the talent changes warrior tanking just didn't feel "right" so I kept him fury and focused on tanking with the DK. I usually tank for guild groups for our random but I also queue for DPS while doing Arch. That said it seems that I'm seeing more and more DK tanks in the system, and less and less warrior/pally. I don't think I've ever been in a LFD group with a druid so I figured they're nonexistent.
So is my "enjoyment" of DK tanking stemming from them being somewhat faceroll? Is my "dislike" at being a warrior tank from them not being faceroll? I mean I've seen some pretty bad DK tanks the last week 10 day, and I consider myself slightly above average at best, but I try to offer friendly constructive advice if I can. Is anyone else seeing this trend? Is DK tank the new reroll tank?
Of course you're going to see more DK tanks than other tanks, you get to start at level 55 instead of 1, saves a lot of time! Honestly though, I would have to say this is the main reason for it, and it's the only reason I rolled a DK at all. I've got 2 dps toons and 1 healer toon, so the obvious choice for trying my hand at tanking was a DK, since I wouldn't have to start at level1 and possibly end up waiting until level 60 or 70 (when most key abilities are available) to decide I didn't like it.
Add that to the fact that blood is actually pretty awesome right now, and will be getting a slight buff in the next patch, and you have your answer as to why there are so many around right now. Sadly, I still see plenty of incredibly fail DK tanks when doing heroic and non-heroic dungeons on my other toons.
Honestly I feel DK tanks are extremely strong right now, IF THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING. I cant tell you how many times ive been in fail groups even with warrior or pally tanks. I rolled a DK for UH but because of the ridiculously long queues for DPS i started to gear for tanking and actually fell in love with it. I tank heroics all the time and I know for a fact the problem isnt me 95% of the time because people dont know how to listen. Heroics aren't hard, they just need to be organized and not have retards claim to know whats going on then stand in the middle of a blitz in Grim batol, or stand the in the middle of crystal shards in Blackrock.
I have been tanking just because I though hell yea 2hand tanking! After grinding dungeons from 58 59-78 its a little old. Granted the death knight seems to take less damage than others that I heal on my shaman, but yea I miss shield slamming stuff.
It feels like DK survivability/self healing has gotten a lot better in cata, and our aoe threat feels a lot stronger than warrior and druid are atm. I haven't tanked at 85 on a druid and you don't really see a any of them around, and Pally seems as strong as usual, however warrior threat and mitigation just feels....broken.
I used to love tanking on my warrior in LK, but it feels like an uphill battle holding threat in 5 mans now, and the healers seem to have to burn a lot more mana keeping him up.
Thing about dk survivability and healing is it is very largely reactive and facerolling won't cut it. Our abilities are like specialized shield swapping with cds attached.
Maybe, DKs and pallies seem to be the best right now. I can't say that for sure since I don't have the others leveled, but feral seems rough and warriors seem to be complaining. People think DKs suck, and they often do, but the class is quite strong. We are excellent tanks and some of the top DPS as well. Our healing is amazing.
So is my "enjoyment" of DK tanking stemming from them being somewhat faceroll? Is my "dislike" at being a warrior tank from them not being faceroll? I mean I've seen some pretty bad DK tanks the last week 10 day, and I consider myself slightly above average at best, but I try to offer friendly constructive advice if I can. Is anyone else seeing this trend? Is DK tank the new reroll tank?
Of course you're going to see more DK tanks than other tanks, you get to start at level 55 instead of 1, saves a lot of time! Honestly though, I would have to say this is the main reason for it, and it's the only reason I rolled a DK at all. I've got 2 dps toons and 1 healer toon, so the obvious choice for trying my hand at tanking was a DK, since I wouldn't have to start at level1 and possibly end up waiting until level 60 or 70 (when most key abilities are available) to decide I didn't like it.
Add that to the fact that blood is actually pretty awesome right now, and will be getting a slight buff in the next patch, and you have your answer as to why there are so many around right now. Sadly, I still see plenty of incredibly fail DK tanks when doing heroic and non-heroic dungeons on my other toons.
Honestly I feel DK tanks are extremely strong right now, IF THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING. I cant tell you how many times ive been in fail groups even with warrior or pally tanks. I rolled a DK for UH but because of the ridiculously long queues for DPS i started to gear for tanking and actually fell in love with it. I tank heroics all the time and I know for a fact the problem isnt me 95% of the time because people dont know how to listen. Heroics aren't hard, they just need to be organized and not have retards claim to know whats going on then stand in the middle of a blitz in Grim batol, or stand the in the middle of crystal shards in Blackrock.
I have been tanking just because I though hell yea 2hand tanking! After grinding dungeons from 58 59-78 its a little old. Granted the death knight seems to take less damage than others that I heal on my shaman, but yea I miss shield slamming stuff.
It feels like DK survivability/self healing has gotten a lot better in cata, and our aoe threat feels a lot stronger than warrior and druid are atm. I haven't tanked at 85 on a druid and you don't really see a any of them around, and Pally seems as strong as usual, however warrior threat and mitigation just feels....broken.
I used to love tanking on my warrior in LK, but it feels like an uphill battle holding threat in 5 mans now, and the healers seem to have to burn a lot more mana keeping him up.
Thing about dk survivability and healing is it is very largely reactive and facerolling won't cut it. Our abilities are like specialized shield swapping with cds attached.
Maybe, DKs and pallies seem to be the best right now. I can't say that for sure since I don't have the others leveled, but feral seems rough and warriors seem to be complaining. People think DKs suck, and they often do, but the class is quite strong. We are excellent tanks and some of the top DPS as well. Our healing is amazing.
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